>> eric: that's it for us. >> jamie: shannon? >> my plan is not to raise taxes on anyone. i'm going to reduce taxes for middle-income americans. >> mr. romney wants another $5 trillion in tax cuts that he can't pay for. >> you can't have it both ways. a battle over $5 trillion, your tax dollars, president obama says a tax cut by the governor would roll out benefits to only the wealthiest americans at the cost of the middle class. romney says, no matter how many times the president says it it is not true. who is telling the truth? i'm shannon bream, live in

washington. we have representatives from both sides of the aisle. rnc chairman, reince priebus and dnc chairwoman, debbie wasserman-schultz. welcome. we start in washington with reince priebus. i want to talk about the unemployment numbers for september, 7.8%, the lowest since president obama has been in office. he said, you can't turn back now, america is moving in the right direction. has he made a case that we are seeing recovery? >> not at all. first of all, we will let the economists argue over the numbers. i know people are arguing over how you can could have 900,000ions found, a month before the election. i will let them argue about that. if it's all true and it all works out and it's not adjusted downward if a month, i think it's great for the country to see improvement in the job mark. however, the problem we have is we have the democrats that are bragging about, you know, scoring field goals when we need

touchdowns. it is your team getting clobbered and celebrating because you kicked a field goal in the fourth quarter. it is too little. it is not where we need to be as a country, it is want living up to the promises that barack obama made himself to the american people. you saw on wednesday night, he couldn't defend t. i mean, the empty chair showed up on wednesday night because he didn't have a safe zone. he couldn't defend his record. >> shannon: he continuously talked about a plan that governor romney has that would in their estimation, lead to a $5 trillion deficit, they are citing outside besides for that number. and romney says it will be compensated for by loopholes. how he will justify the cuts? where will those revenue sources be made up? >> even stephanie cutter admitted it is not a $5 trillion

tax cut. we have a 20% tax cut across the board, no matter what income level you fall into. but for those people at the higher levels of income, what governor rom no is proposing is closing loopholes and dedux for those individuals that will ultimately make the entire budget revenue neutral. >> shannon: when will we find out what they are? >> when a budget is put together, when the budget committee puts forward a budget, they don't put forward a budget with every loophole and deduction and every single -- they have a couple of numbers, they say here's the top number, here's the bottom number. you go to the ways & means committee and i sit down with a burch of people and i figure out how to get a tax cut across the board and close the loopholes so the people at the higher levels pay more. you make it revenue neutral. that's how the process works. here's the deal. debbie wasserman-schultz.

they know exactly what i am saying. but for the sake of continuing this lie about a $5 trillion tax cut, they are going to keep saying it over and over and over. look, the proof is in the pudding. the president couldn't defend himself on wednesday. it is not good enough to come the next day, like a high school with the comebang lines and the zingers. bring your game on game day. don't bring it the next day. >> shannon: the comeback lines from the president and those supporting him is that rom recommend lied. >>ific. it is like, every fact checkener america is having fun with barack obama-- the few thing hes did say on wednesday night, many of them were proven to be lies themselves. and so the next day, they say let's call him a liar. i mean, it is ridiculous. the only person that came prepared and honored the american people that were watching that debate and expected an honest, serious debate was governor romney.

the president, not just disappointed the people who were waiting for him to come prepared. i found it to beay offensive. i think a lot of people did. >> shannon: the american folks will have the chance to see the v.d. p. debate and two more with the head-to-head match up. >> shannon: fair and balanced. let's check in with congressman debbie wasserman-schultz. i am sure there is a lot you would like to respond to. let's start with the contention that and you other democrats know it's a lie to say that mitt romney is proposing a $5 trillion tax cut, qeet you want to keep that narrative going. >> if you look at independent fact checkers, that looked at mitt romney's claim that he didn't have a $5 trillion tax cut proposal, skewed toward the wealthy to require mitts-class tax increases, polito facts, new york times, independent fact checkers and economists have said that mitt romney has embraced for 18 months, until

wednesday night, that he has a $5 trillion tax cut plan, skewed toward the wealthy and he has no details in terms of deductions or anything like that. and the independent experts that have lookad it say you have to increase taxes on the middle class to get to that 20% rate cut and $5 trillion that are skewed toward the wealthy. an average middle class family would see an average of $2,000 increase. there is no running away from that. a different mitt romney was breathtakingly dishonest on that stage. >> shannon: congresswoman, is it fair to say that there are going to be $5 trillion in cuts, even if you want to concede the point, even though sevny cutter stipulates that that is not true that, it would be a $5 trillion cut. it's only part of the story because, of course, there will be other revenue suggestions and way to make up the revenue.

how do you respond? >> well, we have no idea. look, shannon, i said as a member of the budget commit. i am a former member of the appropriations committee. chairman priebeus, i am until congress every day. i certainly do know how budgets are put together. i know that the president proposed a budget that is completely transparent and shows us how you would get to a balanced approach to deficit reduction and making sure we can continue to move our economy forward, as he has for 31 straight months. and 44-month low in the unemployment rate. you know what is really shocking is that you have republicans, colleagues of mine, mitt romney, reince priebus, disappointed to continue the football analogy. they were rooting for a fumble and it's unbelievable that they are disappointed that we have a 44-month low in the unemployment rate. the american enterprise institute said that anyone talks about cooking the books is

living in crazy town. so i guess chairman priebeus and other republicans either are dwelling there or simply rooting for failure. we need to continue to move our economy forward. >> shannon: the same grandpa, aei, said that under the president's plan, taxes would go up by $4,000 are they right? >> the tax policy center, which made up of economists from the bush administration and as well as the clinton administration, their asis says when it comes to mitt romney's and paul ryan's budget plan, it would cost $2,000 to pay for tax breaks for millionaires and billionaires, it turns medicare into a voucher system. that's one thing that mitt romney was honest about. he said that we should cut medicare benefits. embrace that and proposed it. and then to add insult to injury said, yeah, we won't be able to

have medicare to continue to be a guarantee, we will have to shred that safety net to preserve it. barack obama's plan has proven we can add years of solvency, 8 years by making sure we reduce wasteful subsidies to medicare insurance companies and add years of solvency. we need to work together to continue to move forward, not have republicans rooting for failure and really transparently being disappointed that we have made progress. we have a ways to go, but we need to continue to move forward and fight for the middle class, not for the people who are doing really, really well and make sure they can do even better. >> shannon: you brought up obamacare. and medicare, but that's a plan, which outside independent bodies and fact-checking organizations across the board have said it takes more than $700 billion out of medicare. >> no on the contrary. the $716 billion does is, it is

savings in wasteful subsidies that didn't go into the care of seniors at all for medicare advantage companies and plows that into fighting fraud and abuse. in the last 2 years, we have had more than $10 billion in savings from medicare fraud payments, that we have been able to collect, thanks to the affordable care act. thanks to obamacare. we have added 8 years to solvence tow medicare. we have closed the prescription drug donut hole and made sure that seniors have improved benefits. and mitt romney actually publicly said, we will have to reduce benefits for seniors in medicare in order to make sure it remains solvent. that's shocking and unacceptable. as a member of congress that represents thousands of seniors in south florida, i know they find it unacceptable. >> shannon: we have and you your counterpart here as well. we want to give a final question to both of you. i want to ask you, we will start with the chairman reince

priebus. in the vice-presidential debate, how much do you think the issues of medicare will come up? is that an accurate representation of the romney/ryan plan? >> absolutely not. it's laughable that debbie wasserman-schultz would give anyone a lecture about budgeting when she and her party have not given a budget in 3 years in violation of the law. they are not doing their job and they are spewing talking points about the budgeting process. it's a joke. secondly, i expect joe biden to do a good job. he has been debating since the early 1900s. he has done 18 debates already -- presidential or vice-presidential debates. i think he is relatable. i don't take him lightly. i think that paul will be prepared. but joe bidenville to deliver big-time, based on the debate nabarack obama put on the board last wednesday. so he is going to be prepared. he will want to score in points. >> shannon: congresswoman, final response to you and your expect eggs with the debate this weerk in.

>> i have debated paul ryan in the budget committee and news interviews like this one. he is certainly a good debater, will come well prepared. vice-president biden will as well. paul ryan has a tall order. is he going to spell out the details that he refused to spell out on this network because he said he didn't have time? he will have 90 minutes. he will have a chance to say why he proposed and mitt romney has embraced, turning medicare into a voucher system. mitt romney said that he thinks the medicare guarantee should end and we should turn it into a voucher system and decrease benefits for seniors in medicare to make it solvent. i want to hear paul ryan defend that because he has avoided the details, as did mitt romney on wednesday night. >> shannon: it will be a center-stage top thick week in the vice-presidential debate. thank you both very much. >> thank you. >> shannon: we want to know what you think at home. what will matter to you the

most? experience, policies, confidence, honesty, clear plans, charisma, those zingers, one-liners or something else? fweet us your answers. we will read your responses. it's about the v.p. debate on twitter this week. it is not clear who launched a drone that penetrated israeli air space. but hezbollah may be responsible. it's backed by iran. tensions are running high by iran and israel, for the nuclear program, which many believe is a cover for the production of atomic upon weapons. the plane was shot down by the israeli military. suspected terrorists have pleaded not guilty in american courts. the men were extradited from england this week, three are being tried in a federal court in new york and two,s in a federal court in connecticut. they are accused of recruiting and training terrorists.

an outbreak of a rare strain of meningitis has killed 7 and sickened more than 60 others. it is linked to steroid shots. elizabeth has the latest judge a deadly outbreak has spread across 9 state, seven fatalities, tennessee, michigan, maryland and virginia in the last week. more than 60 have become sick, according to the centers for disease control and prevention, those people contracted a rare form of meningitis from steroid jakes, used to treat back pain. the tainted drug was ship to the doctors and pain clinics from the new england compounding center in massachusetts. the fda has since recalled the injection and is working to notify anyone who may have been injected with the contaminated drug. meningitis is often caused by viruseses and bacteria, but this particular strain is caused by a fungus. symptoms can be as severe as

stroke and take days if not weeks to show. >> some of the symptoms, like headache, nausea, high fever, are similar to the flu that we are experiencing, currently. but if you have had this particular steroid injection, doesn't matter. if you are experiencing one or two of these symptoms, go get checked. >> reporter: the cdc says this fungal strain is not contagious from person to person, but they do have a list of 75 clinics where the shipments did go to on their web site, cdc.gov. >> shannon: thank you for that important update. it's an all-time high for gas prices in california. triple-a says the state's average is $4.65 a gallon for regular gas, up 49 cents since just last month. the average has been up a staggering 85 cents over the past year. earlier this week, an exxon refinery lost power, causing gas

shortages in california. the refinery's operating normally, but it could take a few days for the price to stableaisize. lawmakers are continuing to demand answers about the deaths of four americans in libya and the level of security they were given for their protection. a key house committee says it's tired of waiting for the white house and it is taking action. that's next. a little bit later, we will ask a man how they will keep republicans in the house. that's live. [ male announcer ] in blind taste tests, even ragu users chose prego. prego?! but i've bought ragu for years. [ thinking ] woer what other questionable choices i've made? i choose date number 2! whooo! [ sigh of relf ] [ male announcer ] choose taste. choose prego.

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>> shannon: the united states has agreed to allow south korea to possess longer-range missiles that could strike all of north korea. until now, south korea's been barred from having that capability, based on a 2001 accord with the u.s. the new modified agreement allows seoul to more than double the range to counter what it considers to be a growing threat from the north. lawmakers on capitol hill who are still looking for answers about attacks on the u.s. embassy and consulate in libya

that left four americans dead are taking action. the house oversight commission is launching a new investigation and demanding that top security officials appear. peter doocy has the latest. >> reporter: shannon, the hearing you are talking about, noon wednesday, is billed as a look into the security failures of benghazi. among the witnesses will be lieutenant colonel andrew wood, the head security official at the u.s. consulate in benghazi, the leader of a 16-man special forces security team, a team that was instructed to leave libya in august, weeks before the deadly september 11 raid that killed ambassador chris stichs, information specialist sean smith and glen dohertyy and tyrone woods. andrew wood is a green beret with the utah army national guard. he told cbs, it is unbelievable to him that the state department decreased security in libya when they did because he showed them

how dangerous and volatile and unpredictable the entire environment in libya was with at least 13 security incidents before september 11, backing up his case. as for his testimony this week, former u.s. ambassador to the u.n., john bolton, toll us today, he happenings the state department needs to listen and learn quickly. >> the state department should not wait for the conclusion of its own administrative review board, which won't report for 60 days, there ought to be an ongoing process to try to enhance the security of diplomatic and other official personnel in the middle-east and elsewhere. >> reporter: at the house oversight hearing, we will hear from sharl eep lamb, the deputy assistant secretary for programs at the bureau of diplomatic security and eric nordstrom, a regional security officer for the state department. >> shannon: thank you very much. some controversial anti-jihad ads in some anti-muslim will go

up in the d.c. metro system this weekend, despite concerns about possible violent retailiation. a judge has ruled that the ads have to be up by no longer than 5:00 p.m., the pro-israel ads, jihad, a war between the civilled and the quote savages. counter ads have been taken out. the ads will be side by side in the new york subway system. they can't both be right. will mitt romney cut $5 trillion in taxes to benefit the wealthy? or not? he is in a must-win battleground state of florida and john roberts is there as well. >> reporter: good afternoon to you. the president and governor romney continue to slug it out in preparation for their next one-on-one meeting in the great debate. i am in port saint lucie, florida. we will have the america's news headquarters coverage, coming right now. [ male announcer ] this is sheldo whose long day setting up the news

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>> it is the bottom of the hour. here's what is at the top of the news. governor mitt romney is getting personal on the damain -- campaign trail. in a campaign event yesterday, he shared stories about friends he has, including one who passioned away. this appears to be part of a move to shed the image of him as an uncaring corporate raider. at least even people are dead and more than 60 are sick from a steroid with tainted injections. health officials are trying to warn everyone who may have gotten those shots, traced back to a massachusetts lab. owners of the popular honda crv, honda is recalling the 2002-06 models because of a faulty electrical switch.

it says the switch located inside the driver's side door could melt and cause a fire. be sure to check it out. those are in of your stop stories. how much will last week's debate matter in the long run? both sides are still sppding, with tax policy and jobs. john roberts in is live in port saint lucie, where governor romney is campaigning here thisach. >> reporter: they have 3 hours and they are standing out in the 90-degree sun and the 90% humidity for a while. this morning, president obama was on the move, leaving for los angeles, where he has a big hollywood fund-raiser later on today. that off the back of record for campaign 2012 fund-raising month of september, took in $181 million. he continues to hit governor romney for not telling the truth during the debate. ask the obama campaign trying to explain the president's performance on wednesday night.

here's robert gibbs from meet the press. >> it is not rocket science to believe that the president was the disappointed in the expectations he has for himself. >> i think you are going to see a very engaged president that is ready and willing to call out whichever mitt romney shows up. >> reporter: at the same time, the romney campaign is wonder which president obama is going to show up? one said they fully expect the tough, chicago obama to be at the next debate. on the campaign trail, laying out some themes for the next one on one. >> every year, the median income in america's gone down, it's down $4300 a family and the average income of a family around $50,000, that hurts. gasoline prices are up twice what they used to be. these are tough years for the middle class and for the poor in america. >> reporter: of course,

economic themes will play very largely into the debate a week from tuesday, as will foreign policy because they are opening up the format to that end, tomorrow at the lexington, virginia, governor romney with a big foreign policy speech. we will be all over that one. >> shannon: we know you will. thanks checking in from the campaign trail. the november election is also a critical election for coming, which party will stay in control or take control. democrats say they are confident they will pick up seats in the house. there are key races to watch across the country, ohio, california and massachusetts. with us is the chairman of the national republican congressional committee congressman, thank you for your time today? >> shannon, delighted to be with you. >> reporter: you know your committeeic counterparts say they are confident that they will pick up seats and maybe retake control. how are you planning to stop

them? >> we are planning on stopping them by telling the truth. mitt romney did that the beginning of this week, the tax cliff that comes off the spending, the taxes and the more government bureaucracy is exactly what the democrats are selling. this has caused a hiewmg impact on employment, we have a lack of jobs and the future that lies ahead is very bleak, economically. republicans offer a sound plan, not just to cut taxes but to get us back to work and our candidates differ with every single democrat on this issue, i think we will do just fine. >> shannon: we mentioned the key states where you are watching, ohio, california, massachusetts, can you give us insight maybe into the seats that are leaning one way or the other and you are dwoaing a lot of resources to make sure it falls into your column? >> did you mention, a race in massachusetts. one of the top republican

challengers that we have against john teenager neboston. richard is doing a fabulous job. he has ethically challenged the american people, not only want and need honest members of congress, but i think we will win that seat. as you look across the country, republicans are on offense, all across the country, against in thees. look at utah, mia love, running gans a long-time democratic incumbent who, votes for tax and spenning and most of all for nancy pelosi and the agenda. it is all about the -- not just the epa, but the iremarkss to empower them to collect higher taxes and to make life more difficult. as you look across the country, republicans are talking about the epa, rules and regulations that inhibitions and job creation. i think we have a sound policy and plan, one which we vetted and talked about and passed the bills in the houses of representatives, including a

budget for the two years that john boehner has been our speaker. we spend to follow the rules and the laws to give american business a chance to compete globally and we are going on get it done. >> shannon: looking at the polls that takes a broad snapshot, the generic polling from real clear polling its, they give a plus-point 3 advantage to the g.o.p., clearly within the margin of error. it is going to be tight. i want to give you a chance to respond to something that your counterpart, steve israel, who leads up the democratic campaign committee. he said that mitt romney has been a nairjt maker for the dcccc. democrats say he has been great for them i. i think all have you to do is lock at republicans running in key states and seats the democrats have traditionally held. we are up and have an advantage.

i think steve israel recognizes that taxing and spending has reached its marge nin this country. it has cost us millions of jobs. tell bother not only the democrat this is election cycle, but will help republicans. mitt romney is a strong leader who stood up and talked against the talking point, one of the favorite ones that steve israel has, how republicans want to sendions overseas. mitt romney said i have been in business 40 years, vinever seen a tax advantage. that's an advantage to us when you have experience at the top of the ticket of building jobs, jobs creation and a chance to turn this country around. i believe in paul ryan and mitt romney. and i think steve israel will find out that republicans hold the house quite soundly, defeating democrats. >> shannon: we will find out, one month from today. thank you for your time today. >> you bet. >> reporter: >> shannon: pastors across the country are sounding off on

moral, social and political issues today, part of pulpit freedom sunday. it could be coming to a church near you. we will talk about it and wais at stake, right after the break. [ thunder crashes ] [ female announcer ] some people like to pretend a flood could never happen to them. and that their homeowners insurance protects them. [ thunder crashes ] it doesn't. stop pretending. only flood insurance covers floods. ♪ visit floodsmart.gov/pretend to learn your risk. [ male announcer ] jill and her mouth have lived a great life. but she has some dental issues she's not happy about. so i introduced jill to crest pro-health for life. selected for people over 50. pro-health for life is a toothpaste that defends against

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i>> a thousand pastors across te country will participate in pulpit freedom sunday today, an event that has religious leaders talking about moral issues and where presidential candidates stand on those topics. >> reporter: hey, shannon. you know, the candidates, the issues, the ballot and issues, everything is in fair game. preachers taking part in the pulpit freedom sunday say, bring it on. they are challenging the irs to charge them with violating their tax-exempt status as a religious institution.

saying that churches belong on the front line of the political frontier. >> to silence the pulpits means we are abandobbing our moral course of society and we are letting scientists and hollywood and political leaders be that -- no. it is not going to be the silence of thehams any more. >> reporter: the movementy a direct challenge to the 1954 johnson event, which prevents nonprofits from endorsing or supporting political candidates. it was added to the tax code by lyndon b. johnson. some historians say as a way to silence his critics. attorney jordan laurs, says the law is unconstitutional. >> the irs has no business making a theological determination that certain topics are off limits if you are having church on the weekend. >> reporter: but organizations like americans united for a separation of church special state say the johnson amendment must be upheld to protect the divide between faith and

politicians. >> what is at stake is the integrity of churches. churches are not supposed to be political action committees am people don't go to church tow hfer hear to vote for for the city council or president. they go for spiritual solace and to learn about the holy scripture, want to be told who is the best president. >> reporter: this is the fifth year of public freedom sunday. the number of pastors has grown three-fold from just last year. their ultimate goal is to have the irs law declared unconstitutional and the other is to have their kong -- congrigants vote their values on election day. >> shannon: it's a bold move. thank you. >> reporter: sure. >> shannon: sarah palin, intimate debails about her life from two people who know her really, really well -- her father and her brother. both of those men will be here

after the break.

>> shannon: a $5 trillion difference of opinion. the obama campaign says mitt romney's economic plan boils down to a massive tax cut for the wealthiest americans. the romney campaign says, not

true. in the next hour, a fair and balanced debate with key members from both sides upon the unemployment rate is down, but is that because americans are down and out and have given up on finding a job? economist ben stein breaks down the number. a helping hand or handout? some claim the government makes it easier for to you get food stamps than to get a job. john stosesle looks at the cost of a welfare state approximate who is footing the bill. canada's cracking down on immigration fraud, promising to revoke citizenship to more than 3,000 people. and there could be more cases on the way. that's one of our most clicked stories. we have more from the newsroom with what you are reading on foxnews.com. >> reporter: candidates -- can district attorney's immigration minister says thens have applied for citizenship and attained it fraudulently. it is believed they paid someone to help prove they were living

in canada, even though they were living abroad. this is part of a three-year crackdown. another popular story online, a peanut butter recall, more than 200 peanut products are being recalled across america. they may contain salmonella. they come from sunland plant in my mexico and they have extended the recall all the way back to march 2010. 35 people from states across the country have gotten sick from the peanut butter. mostly children. >> income redistribution. do you believe in it? do you? >> no! >> i asked first. >>. >> reporter: that's fox news' own bill o'reilly, taking on his frenemy in a mock debate. stewart hosts the daily show, to rumble in the air conditioned auditorium was supposed to be streamed online, but it was so popular, it crashed. it is available on demand, but

have you to pay a small fee. and half the profits, go to charity. >> shannon: all for a good cause. thanks, peter. between her vice-presidential run and reality tv show, you may think you know everything there is to know about former governor sarah palin, but a new book goes into detail about her life from the beginning until now, by two people who should know -- they have known her all their lives, her father and her brother. it's called "our sarah: made in alaska." welcome, gam, to you both. >> thank, shannon. good to be here. >> you betcha. >> shannon: senior, i want to start with you. why did you decide to write this book? there are many books about sarah palin. what did you think folks should know? >> well, there has been over a hundred books rin about sarah and only two or three have been factual. in fact, two sarah wrote. this will tell the true story of

her upbringing, her rise in politics and a lot of good alaska stories and formulated her character. >> great pictures we can see there. chuck jr., i have to ask you, you are the brother, tell the struth, what was she like as a kid? >> [chuckles] tell you the truth. she was a tom boy. she was a tough as nails. and he hung out with all the guys in the neighborhood, too, doing the same ports we were doing, football, basketball, didn't matter what it was. when we were out in the woods, hunting, she was right there with us, too, including coming home from school and immediately heading out the door, trying to get a rabbit for dinner, whatever it was, she was right there. >> shannon: chuck sr., was she wellde behaved? did have you to discipline her much in. >> i remember disciplining chuck jr. here quite a bit. but she -- i don't remember spanking her. we went toe to toe on a few

things, once in a while. but she usually was right and would back me down. that's the way he is. >> reporter: so -- >> that's one thing -- >> shannon: go ahead. maybe that's where she got her debating skills. >> she has always had this super clear sense of right approximate wrong. and she was never, obviously, been afraid to stand up and stick up for what she thinks is right. if that meant talking down dad at times, that's what she would do -- >> and she did. >> shannon: chuck sr., you mentioned there were so many books that were not accurate about her. are there misperceptions that you put to rest in this book? or factual things that you clear up? was that a big part of writing this book? >> well, we tried to set the record straight on so many things. some of the books said she banned books, she huns wolfs from helicopters and things like

this. we included 40-some people who grew up with her, clergymen, ex-coach, ex-teachers and they tell their story what sarah was really like. you will enjoy reading that in the book. >> shannon: chuck jr., what do you want people to know, the average american or around the world because she does touch off brl debates. what do you want them to know about who she is as a person? >> i hope the book, you know, conveys what a completely normal person she is, first of all. there are so many misconceptions that she is not smart f. she was to sit down in the room with any of these people who are spewing all of these lies, it would tation -- it would take 30 seconds to completely change their opinion of her. hopefully, this book will convey that. >> shannon: there is a lot of

behind of had the-scenes political stuff. chuck jr. and chuck sr., thank you for dropping in to tell us about it. >> thank you. go, pack, go today! >> shannon: he's got the jacket on. he's ready to go. >> this is a dream come true. yeah. >> shannon: unemployment is down. but does the new unemployment rate accurately reflect wais happening in the economy? we break down the numbers. and they might surprise you. [ food, meet flavor. flavor, meet food. it's time for swanson flavor boost. concentrated broth in easy to use packets. mix it into skillet dishes, for an instant dose of... hell-o! [ female announcer ] get recipes at flavorboost.com. try this... bayer? this isn't just a headache. trust me, this is new bayer migraine. [ male announcer ] it's the power of aspirin plus more in a triple action formula to relieve your tough migraines.

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>> shannon: with september's unemployment rate falling to 7.8% things on the surface appear to be looking up. what does the number actually mean for you? molly henneberg digs a little deeper. >> reporter: three of president obama's most loyal voting blocs in the 2008 election are struckling in the current economy. remember, september's national unemployment rate is 7.8%. breaking that down by demographics, african americans 13.4% unemployed, up from 11.3% this time four years ago. hispanics, 9.9% unemployed, up from 8% in september of 2008. and young people ages 18 to 29 a september unemployment rate of 11.8%, up from 9.8% in 2008. one analyst says young people

often can't get a foot in the door. >> the economy is simply not creating enough full-time meaningful jobs at the entry level because you have so many more people competing for the jobs now that have advanced degrees or degrees and the market is tight for them. >> reporter: do the unemployment numbers mean the president could lose some support among these groups? one analyst says probably not. >> probably not going to impact it much. in the end, of course, the economy matters for any politician running for election. voters are looking for something more than just plug in some number and what comes out is a certain percentage of votes. you have to woo a constituency on a series of levels. >> one hispanic advocate says the numbers should have an impact on the numbers. >> hispanics unemployment rate stuck at 10% or above for 44 months. mr. president where are the jobs. you campaigned h heavily in

2008 to bring jobs back to the hispanic community and the numbers are not there. >> reporter: james says the numbers say more about education and training than about race. he says less skilled less educated workers are doing poorly no matter what race they are are from. in washington, molly henneberg, fox news. the problem we he have here is we have the democrats bragging about scoring field goals when we need touchdowns. >> they were rooting for a fumble and t is unbelievable that they are disappointd that we have a 44 month low in the unemployment rate. >> shannon: sunday football talk. not the kind that we are expecting here because now just 30 days left for president obama and governor romney to make their cases to voters before election day. it has been almost a week and both sides are still trying to clarify things that were said at last week's debate and tweak some strategy as they move on to the next one.

i'm shannon bream. hour number two of america's news headquarters live from the nation's capital starts right now. we begin with news on the unemployment rate. down to the lowest number since president obama took office. his campaign says that proves the president's policies are working. republicans argue the numbers are down because people are just giving up. doug mcelway with details of the latest disagreement. doug? >> the controversy surrounding the release of the september unemployment numbers continues to it swirl after one of america's most respected ceos took to twin citieser to find up off this tweet. "unbelievable jobs numbers. these chicago guys will do anything. can't dewait so change numbers. peacing a torrent of criticism for the defeat. welch struck about the criticism of the number. >> who is participating.

who is not working. who is trying to work but has dropped out. all of these things. it just raises the question i think there ought to be a good discussion aut how this number is calculated. >> most analysts are dismissing welch's criticism as utter early without evidence while at the same time pointing out that the jobs numbers largely reflect an obama econom an obat has the economy still stuck in neutral. >> the policies that the president put in place actually made it worse. including the fact that obama care is causing small employers not to hire because of rising healthcare costs. >> former white house press secretary robert gibbs today also touched on the jack welch tweet. >> you wonder why institutions in this country are the perception of institutions in the country are failing because people go on tv and make stuff up. ask for the evidence and he said he had none. >> we continue to make

progress. 31 consecutive months of private sector job growth. certainly we are not where we want to be. >> many analysts who combed through the unemployment data released attribute the decline to a big increase in part-time work. people looking for full-time jobs unable to find them and they are settling for part-time jobs. there were some 582,000 new part-time jobs created last month. the bureau of labor statistics categorizes the number as "part time for economic reasons." not exactly a vote of confidence in the state of the economy, shannon. >> shannon: all right, doug. a lot more on the numbers. we will break them down later with ben stein, well known economist and author and humorist as well. we might need a little bit of that. thank you, doug. is the lower unemployment number going bolster president obama's reelection bid or be ammunition for the romney campaign.

the president said in the debate this week this is proof that america can't turn back now the policies are working and unemployment at the lowest number is sense he took office. how do you counter that? >> it has been four years since he took office and he implemented a stimulus and healthcare package and we are here now. we it still have too many americans out of work. 23 million americans that can't find work. i think it is great if in fact more people are going back to work that is fantastic news. this isn't what a recovery is supposed to look like. recovery should see numbers in the 250,000 and 300,000 every month. right now we are cheering field goals in the fourth quarter. we should have month after month if this was truly working and t is not. i think this there was very few americans that woke up yesterday morning and said gosh it is going better. gas prices doubled. college costs up. healthcare costs up. going to the gross relationship store is costing more. i don't think one number is

changing the feeling. 60% of the country if not more saying we are h heading in the wrong direction because it is not going to take one report to say things are all better. it has been four years and people just aren't feeling like the country and their personal situation is getting better under this president. >> shannon: across-the-board media outlets patriotic at the much agree that the president did not -- pretty much agree the president did not have a good time at the debate, he did not have a good night and mitt romney came out on top in the debate this week. there have been a couple of distractions and things that he talked about that have come from the debate. we want to play about what he had to say about the battle over funding pbs. >> i'm sorry, jim, i'm going to stop the subsidy to pbs and stop other things. i like pbs and love big bird and actually like you, too. i'm not going to keep on spending money on things to borrow money from china to pay for it. >> shannon: jijim lehrer did nt

look happy about the possibility of funding cut. big bird has been out talking about this. pbs released this statement saying as a supporter of education governor romney should be a supporter of public education yet he he is willing to wipe out services that reach the vast majority of americans. we know big bird was one of the big twitter hash tags and top ecktopics that night. is this a distraction now, this that we are having to talk about the battle over funding pbs. >> absolutely. a false choice as well. look at the particular. governor romney made it clear. we have $16 trillion worth of debt. 5'" additional trillion since this president has been in office. we are borrowing that money largely from china. and so you look at programs and as governor romney outlined his threshold is are we -- is it such a good program that we need to borrow money from china to pay for it and in the case

of sesame street in particular they cleared $124 million in merchandising and other sales last year. so they made $124 million and then the government sade and we will still give you more to put your show on pbs. that just doesn't make good business sense or good sense for this country. does that mean that we don't support pbs or shouldn't find ways to ensure that that kind of programming gets on television? absolutely not. it is good television and great for kids. doesn't mean you turn around and say let's borrow money from china to give a company that made $124 million more money to get that show on air. it doesn't make sense. i think what you are hearing from governor romney and the reason that he he did so well, is because it was based on substance. he went out there and talked about the problems that this country faces. put real solutions and real plans in place and i think the american people on substance said this guy knows how to take this country forward, turn the economy around, deal with the

debt, and a whole host of other issues. i think what you you saw last week and what you will continue to see in the remaining 30 days is a real choice between governor romney's plans to turn this country around and the trickle down government policies that we have seen over the last four years. >> shannon: it will be down to the wire. >> it will be fun. >> shannon: great to see you. thanks for coming in. >> absolutely. >> shannon: a little later on in the show we sit down with the communications director for the obama campaign. we will have the other side of the discussion. well, another all-time high average gas price in california. triple a says the state average now stands at $4.65 for a gallon of regular. up 49 cents since just last month. the average in california rose staggering 85 cents in the last year. earlier this week an exxon refinely lost power, causing shortages in some area. experts believe it could take a few days for the price to

stablize,. across the u.s., is seven people have died from gusingitis linked to fun gus infected steroid injections. this specialty pharmacy in massachusetts that distributes this drug issued a recall and shut down operations. two white ste students sayy were cost a chance to attend the university of texas. their case hits the supreme court this week. we will have a fair and balanced debate with our own legal experts, right after the break.

>> shannon: her teacher says it was a joke but a high school student in pennsylvania isn't laughing. samantha paul loosey claims she was bullied by a teacher for wearing a romney ryan t-shirt to school. her teacher pretended to have one of the assistants draw on her with a marker. the teacher equated the shirt to the robes of the club klu klux klan.

>> it taught me that he should stick up for what i believe in. even though kids want to fight me and hit me, i think it is my right to do what i think is right. >> the teacher has been reassigned and samantha has left that school. an investigation is underway. >> shannon: in a 2007 supreme court opinion chief justice john roberts wrote the way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race. the words will be put to the test when an affirmative action case was originally brought by two applicants who argued that the race based admissions at the university of texas has resulted in discrimination against them. will this case set isle the debate for good? here for a fair and balanced debate, elizabeth and david. welcome to you both. >> thank you, shannon. great to be here. >> thank you, shannon.

>> shannon: elizabeth, i will start with you. what interest does the school like the university of texas have mckinley making sure it has a specific racial makeup or using race in some ways in its admission criteria. >> a fair process for expanding opportunity in education and what they have done is not trying to you know, we have these sort of strawman arguments about quota or certain percentages. put are just trying to put together a highly qualified group of students with a diverse background and perspectives. what i will be most interested in as the justices hear the case this week is how conservative justices like scalia and thomas who profess to be constitutional originallallists deal with the fact that the framers of the 14th amendment equal protection clause, the guys who wrote the language that the supreme court will be struggling with wrote it into the constitution were the original proponents of

affirmative action. the most important of these measures they enacted were focused on education. i hope the supreme court will not go back on the kic decadesf precedent and instead will confirm school's efforts to ensure that higher education is diverse and effective and in line with the constitution guarantee of meaningful equality for all americans regardless of race. >> shannon: this is something the court has struggled with a number of times. didn't expect the topic to be back so soon because they laid out guidelines for how colleges should use race if they are going to use it in the admissions criteria. the university of texas will argue it has done it in a very responsible way. do you expect the court to tell them they have got it wrong? >> abigail fisher was a student that was denied an academic opportunity, shannon, by her government because of the color of her skin.

i do think there has been a shift on the court o'connor was the one that swung it before where are they said that it is still acceptable for the schools to use race, government schools using government funds using racial criteria to decide whether students get opportunity or not. and so with justice keegan abstaining from the case i do think there is significant opportunity the fact that the court took the case, number one and number two that the justices that will be deciding it will be leaning towards exactly what the framers of the 14th amendment intended. i do agree that the intention of the founders will be important but i he think what they were trying to do is eradicate race-based discrimination and the question on affirmative action where because of the color of your skin you are giving an advantage to someone because it is not given to any one else,

is needed any more. or should we go to a merit based situation where every student regardless of the color of their skin is treated fairly slap do you foresee that could be in any way fair. in we know the university of texas system the top ten of those who graduate interest texas high schools regardless of race if you are there in the top 10% academically you automatically get admitted to the university of texas. the race issue doesn't start to get in until they make it to the tier of applicants who didn't get into the top ten. should it be based on your numbers? what you have done academically and in extra curricular activities and take race out of the equation? could that ever be fair? >> david's arguments are red herring. the university of texas is looking at an already highly qualified pool of students and looking beyond test scores to many of the things that you

mentioned but also as one of the those factors, just one, taking race and ethnicity into account. i think it is wonderful that david agrees with me that the meaning of equality in the constitution and what it meant to those who actually wrote the equal protection clause in the constitution will be important next week because, yes, they absolutely were focused on ending race-based discrimination when they wrote and ratified the 14th amendment. but in doing so, they specifically wanted to allow measures that took race into account in a sensitive nuanced way and provided in particular educational opportunity to ensure pathways to leadership and career success for americans of all races. >> shannon: we are almost out of time so david a quick final word to you here. >> i believe that the founders intended to eradicat eradicatem through the 14th amendment

and a color blind government is safer to protect the liberty of all of us. it is dangerous and a slippery slope when the government starts giving privileges or teaing away privileges because of the color of your skin. that is what the supreme court will look at this week. >> shannon: you two would be ready to argue the case. it lands at the court wednesday. i know we will all be watching. thank you very much for the prepreview. >> thank you, shannon. >> thank you. >> shannon: was it a game changer? one of the latest polls say a closer look at whether or not there s a post debate balance or bounce. juan williams and ed rollins will weigh in, next. customer erin swenson bought from us online today.

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>> shannon: this is a fox news alert. brand new video just coming in from the turkish border where there is fighting that continues between turkey and syria now for a fifth straight day.

fire come from turkey firing back at syria moments after a syrian shell landed in turkish territory. the back and forth has gone on since wednesday when a syrian shell killed five people near the turkish border. governor romney is getting personal on the trail this week. peter doocy with your top stories. peter? >> governor romney told the florida crowd a story of a friend or rather a classmate who attended a rally in a wheel chair and governor romney said the next day that friend of his died. it is all part of a brand new campaign strategy to show romney's softer side. across the aisle the obama campaign their biggest fund raising month yet with $181 million. at least 7 people are dead as a result of a meningitis outbreak. more than 60 are sec from the virus and the sauce o cause ofe outbreak linked to teened steroid injections.

average gas prices reached an allle time high at $4.61 per gallon. that beats the previous record by a penny. 12 cents up from the average price on friday. a power outage at an exxon refinery blamed for the recent spike. honda recalling crvs because a faulty electrical switch. the switch could melt and cause a fire. back to you. >> shannon: peter doocy with the headlines. thank you. earlier we talked to rnc communications director shawn spicer about is several big campaign issues and now the other side of the conversation. we are joined by brent colburn to get the other side of the debate. thanks for joining us today. >> thanks for having me. >> shannon: i want to talk to you first about an issue that you all have done very well with female voters we have seen in polling again and again that the president maintains an advantage there. i want to run a new ad that is out tahoe light that that higha

female voter and then get your rehe action. this ad i believe is called melanie. >> sure. >> i'm disappointed in barack obama as my president because he promised to bring us all together and we will all be able to prosper. i don't see the prospering. in 2008 i voted for barack obama. he doesn't have my vote this time. being a woman you think about your children and you think about their future and what i want to think about is a future that has jobs, our economy is growing again. that is important to women and it is important po me. to me. >> i'm mitt romney and i approve this message than hits on that she is a female voter and small business owner and worried about the future of her children and grandchildren. are you worried about losing any ground with those it particular constituencies? >> we are doing well among women voters for the same reason we are doing well with voters across the board. the president is talking

specifically about the things he has done and plans to do to help women and women voters. that ad illustrated what we have seen out of the romney budget any campaign consistently throughout the campaign and in the debate last wednesday night. a rhetoric but the policies don't match up. the president has been helping small businesses. 18 tax cuts for small businesses over the last four years. policies that help protect women's health and their ability to make their own healthcare choices and most importantly doing things to get women and men back in the workforce. the romney campaign can say the right things but until they start doing the right things we will not see the progress among women voters. >> shannon: one in six americans now living in poverty. median income down since the president took over by $4,500. how does the president rebut what happened on his watch over the last four years? >> sure, well, look, the president has been consistent in telling the american people what he inherited. look, when took over in 2009 we were facing the worst economic

crisis since the great depression. the republicans in office before him had dug a big hole and it has taken four years to dig out of the hole. we saw some numbers on friday that all americans should be excited about in terms of the labor force and unemployment and shows that we are moving in the right direction. 31 straight months of job creation in the country since we kind of started the turnaround. things we still need to address and issues that we still need to tackle but the worst thing we could do for those still out there trying to find work or lift themselves out of poverty is to go backwards. if we hurt our progress by going backwards via the policies of mitt romney those people will be in a worse place. >> shannon: the democrats controlled everything, the white house, the house, the senate tore two years. why not more accomplishment during that time period and at what point does this president stop blaming the last president? >> sure. well, in terms of the first two years of the administration, i think there was a lot of progress and a lot of tough choices were made by the president then including doing

the things we need to do to rescue the auto industry. making real investments in things like education and infrastructure. investments that mitt romney said he wouldn't have made and wouldn't make in the future. those are long-term investments we are starting to see the fruits of now in terms of the economy starting to turn around and us really starting to get out of that hole. it is not about blaming anybody in terms of looking at the context of where we started but it is important to look at the last four years if you are judging the president's record and that includes what he inherited when walked into office on day one. >> shannon: a couple of other things. the president by his own admission according to those closest to him was not happy with the debate performance this week. there are pledges that heel prepare differently and be much different in the next debate. can you tell us anything about shift in strategy or preparation for the next debate? >> i'm not going to get into the details of how the president will prepare. what will take place between now and the second presidential debate. folks need to tune in and see

how that all plays out. prepared for whichever mitt romney shows up. we had a mitt romney show up on wednesday night who seemed to just walk away from his own positions and have a performance that was stylistically impressive buff substantively divorced from his policies. the president will be ready for that this time and call mitt romney on those untruths and falsehoods. >> shannon: a record audience tuning in last team. at least over the last 40 years or so americans hungry for more information with 40 daes left. the next two debates and the vice presidential debate as well could be very interesting. thank you for your time today. >> thank you so much. >> shannon: the unemployment rate good news for the president fell to 7.8% last month. the lowest it has been during h his time in office. governor mitt romney argues that the real number is above 11% if you add in the americans who have simply given up looking for jobs. who is right and who is wrong? let's ask our expert ben stein,

economist and author of, i love this title "how to really ruin your financial life and portfolio." that is so uplifting, ben. >> based on my own life i assure you. >> shannon: you you seem to be very successful. nice to have an economist in the the house. there are those who claim the numbers are cooked and there is something behind them. >> they are not cooked. they are not cooked. they are not cooked. every politician who doesn't like the numbers says they are cooked. i used to work for mr. nixon and he was constantly complaining the bureau of labor statistics was cooking the numbers and he thought it was because there was too jews there and made efforts to fire some of the jews there. they are not cooked. the number of people are given up and discouraged. any one can say he is is discouraged or beaten down and can't look for the numbers. it doesn't matter. the real numbers how many

people within the labor force are looking for jobs and cannot find them and that number is still astonishingly high that is the main point after spending $5 billion a day more than we are taking in for three and a half years that number is still incredibly high. is the real story. it is astoundingly high. >> shannon: the romney campaign says it is 23 million unemployed or underemployed. >> if mr. romney wins and the democrats are challenging him next time around they will cited the discouraged number, too. it is a meaningless number and i'm sad to see my friend and idol mr. romney using that number. i don't like mr. ryan using that number either. that is a baloney number. the real number is the number actually seeking work and not the number discouraged. >> shannon: is there a good way to accurately measure that? >> there is a household is survey and employer survey and a lot of other ways of surveying in terms of how many are collecting unemployment and so forth. clearly things are improving a

little tiny bit. i will tell you surprise surprise i'm voting for mr. romney but i can't blame mr. obama for all of these problem. he has tried his best. i don't think there is much any republican could have done that would have been much different. there is just not a huge amount of economics knows about how to deal with a financial catastrophe like we had in 2008. >> shannon: if that is the case what is the case for electing mitt romney over president obama if you say that president obama has made a good effort and nobody could have done any better? >> the case is i think mitt romney is a little more of a patriot and will handle foreign affairs and defense much better and i and i will say something hardly anybody says on the air any more. i'm very much prolife and i will always take the prolife candidate. >> shannon: foreign policy. how do you think a president romney would be different, better than president obama? >> i think after a clear terrorist al-qaeda inspired attack on the u.s. consulate

that killed a u.s. ambassador he would not blame a filmmaker in cerritos, california. he would blame kade an al-qaede terrorists. i think he would stand up for america. >> shannon: on the issue of prolife. something we do cover a lot at fox, social issues even though there are some republicans who say stay away from it. not a winner for us. >> not a winner for me either. >> shannon: you are always a winner. >> shannon: what do you think it means for voters because there are voters who the social issues are what drive them to the ballot box or keep them home. >> a lot of that is going on. some voters say you are antiwomen because you are not' louing women to have unlimited rights to have abortion. some say look prolife s a way of saying we want you to not murder little girls in the womb because of sex selection abortion. it is hard for me to see the

prolife as an antiwoman message. to me it as pro everyone message. >> shannon: you think mitt romney won the first debate. >> i actually don't think that. >> shannon: you don't? >> he think he did well. i liked mr. obama in the debate the most i ever liked him. i started out not liking him back in 2004. i only really started thinking to myself this guy is a real gentleman in the debate and i was is touched by his gentlemanliness and the fact that he was not slamming and going for the jugular. i thought he was behaving like a thorough gentleman and this was the most presidential i have seen him. >> shannon: do you think the supporters have to right to be -- >> he got there two hours before and was suffering from altitude effects because he wasn't used to that. i know that. i used to legislative in colorado. as soon as i got there i would feel awful for several days. he should have gotten there a few days before and acclimated himself. i don't think he was feeling

well. i will think one, he showed himself to be a humble guy with humility and genuine respect for his opponent. i think showed himself the best he has ever showed himself. that being said i'm not going to vote for him. >> shannon: it didn't sway you. >> but i'm not going to leave the country or kill myself if he wins. he is not that bad. >> shannon: and this country is a great country. >> pair are a dice and the garden of eden. >> shannon: good luck with the new book. i love the title "how to really ruin your financial life and portfolio." >> and believe me, i've done it. >> shannon: most pundits and many obama supporters agree that mr. romney trumped president obama in the debate. but how much does it really matter? our all-star panel on that, next. does your phone give you all day battery life ? droid does.

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>> shannon: we are starting to get our first statistical look at the impact of governor mitt

romney's debate performance. polls show the gap between romney and president obama is narrowing most note ably in some very important swing states. let's talk about it with ed rollins and juan williams joining us to talk with the new numbers. welcome to you both. >> glad to be he with you. >> shannon: juan, let's start with ohio. after the debate we had a poll out this was from the rasmussen report. they have barack obama 50% and mitt romney 49% and this is among likely ohio voters. seems to be a tightening in voters in ohio and everybody knows that is a crucial state. >> that is the whole kit and kaboodle. the path would be difficult if he does not win, ohio. rasmussen is a little bit of outliar here. more like 45.

>> 49.36. >> so three. what you are seeing here is rasmussen is a little bit ahead of the curve. if he is in fact on his daily polling picking up something that is really good news for mitt romney. >> shannon: ed, what do you think, should the romney camp take it with a bit of cautious optimism? >> they shouldn't at all. execute their game plan. debated a tremendous bebait the other night. mitt romney made himself what he needed to be which was a viable alternative who put forth ideas o of how to get the economy moving again. the destates will will close up. i predict by the next debate this will be a dead even rate, dead even in the national polls and in the states critical. three weeks after that a knock down drag out battle. >> shannon: another one of the key states is florida. rasmussen again there and this is the day after the debate. romney at 49% and obama at 47. the real clear politics average

there a dead even 47 each. one that s a state war lot of seniors reside and a lot of folks worry about issues of medty care and medicaid. romney and ryan spending a lot of time there in the sunshine state. how critical will that one be? >> absolutely. rean took his mom there as you will recall. >> shannon: to the develop lajeunesses. villages. a state where there has been a lot of change. an increasing number of latinos now playing between orlando and tampa where the convention was held and then, of course, the seniors. so and those two demographics will be critical and that is high it is to hard to predict. right now the polling is totally even. >> what do you think of the issue of immigration? juan note there's is a high hispanic population in florida and a number of other critical key states. not something we heard about a lot. they are still three debates ahead.

do you think immigration is something that will sway voters in florida? >> i think a lot of people in florida care about immigration issue. both campaigns have to ten to execute. governor romney has to explain a little more his economic policies. i think the president obviously had a bad night. he will recover. he is a smart guy. beating an incumbent president is never easy but you now basically have a credible alternative. the millions of dollars in negative advertising that the obama campaign has run got diminished the other night by the performance of mitt romney. >> shannon: i want to ask you both how the impact of early voting will play out. a lot of places you can vote before the first debate was even held. there is still a lot to happen in the next 30 days, juan. how much do you think the early voighting issue could benefit or hurt either candidate? >> depends on which state we are talking about. helps a lot i think with people

who are clearly of a mind to vote for one candidate or another. i think that is why they are anxious to do it. and then, of course, there is the whole issue of voter suppression and a lot has to do with making it more difficult to vote in the immediate days before the election. people could request that absentee ballot and go forth. there have been arguments in ohio particularly about this with governor kasich and which counties get to vote early and how much early voting s allowed for what extended period. there is more early voting now, shannon, than there has ever been. and the edethat someone would have voted early before the first debate and, of course, the consensus is romney won that debate and shifted much of the conversation is incredible to me. why would you vote before -- but guess what, people did it. >> shannon: some people say it is like the jury going in and voting before they heard closing arguments. what do you make of it? >> what the debeat did the other are night is made people who might the have been

inclined to vote early let's wait and see. if it had been romney's performance that was criticized the game would be over and the president would have won and won easily. now, he has an opportunity to go before the public. gaining in momentum. my sense, it is going to energize our base. organizationally both of the campaigns have tremendous resources to spend and part spent on get out the vote efforts including the abisn'tee ballots. you will come down to election night and juan and i will be up very late and those two it states we talked about, florida and ohio, romney has to win both to win and the president can lose one of them and still win is. >> shannon: always a treat to visit with both of you. thank you, gentlemen. >> you're welcome, shannon. >> something most of us fear, standing in line having to ask the government for help. but for more and more americans it has become the norm. >> no jobs around? have you looked for a job?

>> i can't look right now because i'm on disability. >> nothing out there. nothing. >> there are no jobs. >> no. >> shannon: is there an alternative to america's welfare state. john stossel investigates. and he joins us live, next. ♪ [ male announcer ] how do you turn an entrepreneur's dream... ♪ into a scooter that talks to the cloud? ♪ or make 70,000 trades a second... ♪ reach one customer at a time? ♪ how do you help doctors turn billions of bytes of shared information... ♪ into a fifth anniversary of remission? ♪ or turn 30-million artifacts...

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some argue welfare is turning america from the land of the free to the land of the dependent. john stossel explores that in a special investigation tonight called "after the welfare state." thanks for joining us. tell us what you found? >> we found there s a possibility for after the welfare state but the current welfare state was meant to lift poor people up. it helped for five years and then improvements stopped.

we taught people to be dependent. i think the clip that you have a.b. industrycation of what my show is about. >> working america every year. >> why does it often feel like poverty is winning. >> poverty is winning? that is what i hear and i'm told government therefore must give poor people more help. >> give us more jobs and more are opportunities for those less fortunate. >> government should just create jobs. >> create more jobs. >> more food stamps. >> more food stamps. >> more welfare? >> more welfare. >> there are other ideas. >> we we had as much economic

freedom as denmark and countries around the world there would be almost no poverty and almost no war are. >> that is ambitious. but he has talked to honduran government, honduras, the country in central america into creating a free city. a large area free of the bureaucratic be regulations and many of the taxes that would be an experiment for enper proneurs much like hong kong and singapore where people with enrich themselves because that is what works better and the other thing that people don't know is that before the big fat welfare state because you say without that who would teak care of the truly helpless. before the welfare state there were all of the mutual aid is societies all over america. people helped each other. racist with blacks helping blacks and italians helping italians but they knew better who needed a helping hand and who needed a kick in the rear and they all disappeared when lyndon johnson and government stepped in because people said i guess the government will take care of it now. >> shannon: john, very interesting and you are very busy. first we will catch the special and tell folks about another one you have as well. john stossel, thank you. >> thank you, shannon. >> shannon: catch the exclusive interview and investigation after the welfare state tonight on fox business network at 9:00 eastern and then if you need another dose of stossel watch john's special winning the president icy. that airs at 10:00 eastern tonight. it is a double dose. up next, your twitter responses, coming up. i love how clean and healthy my mouth is right now. i wish i could keep it this way. [ male announcer ] now you can. with the crest pro-health clinical line. used together, they help keep your teeth 97% as clean as a dental cleaning. the toothpaste actually reduces plaque. and the rinse reaches all areas

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>> shannon: small businesses is are often hit the hard nest a down economy. how bad are things for the billions of small business owners in america? senior correspondent brenda buttner takes a look. >> small businesses cut back on hiring over the summer' cording to a new report. the national federation of independent business says the net change in employment per firm over the three months ending in september was worse than the july and august readings. the negative result shows sleetly more firms cut workers than the share of firms who added staff. manufacturing the only sector to report a substantial job gain. small business was a big topic during the first presidential debate. >> small business people have

decided that america may not be the place to open a new business. >> governor romney and i do share a deep interest in encouraging small business growth. >> a pnc financial services group survey shows small to medium sized firms lowered staffing plans for the future. companies with annual revenues between $100,000 to $250 million, 26% expect to add new employees over the next six months. down from the 28% oh from the spring survey. worries about the economy future explain a lot of reluctance to hire. nearly 60% of business owners or senior are managers are pessimistic about the national economy growth over the next half year. that is up sharply from the 43% are who said that just last spring. shannon, back to you. >> shannon: we always appreciate your insight. thank you. >> thank you. >> shannon: just a few days left until we get to the first and only vice presidential debate.

we have been asking what is the most important quality you want to see in the debate and you he weighed in on twitter. ken says you have to have good policy first and then you have to be able to articulate it and defend it with confidence. >> mike says the candidates should have a connection to the people, clear positions and a sense of trust. andy wrote that ryan must be respectful to the vp but clearly show command of the check initiatives and bob said honestly is the best policy and maybe a good zinger or too. we willle be watching for those. thank you for sharing as always. we love to hear from you out there in twitterville. "fox news sunday" is up next. chris wallace sits down with representatives from both presidential campaigns. senator kelly ayotte and governor martin o'malley. the d.c. team here is losing one of our own. maxine is heading to new york to work for fox business network.